Friday, October 15, 2010

Sinn is an Idiot

I listened in on a teleseminar that Sinn offered last night. He gave some good advice about how to go about getting better at Game, which was great - very good advice. Then, at the end, he pitched his new training program, which he is calling the Platinum Mastermind Group. It's a six month program that consists of two bootcamps, customized curriculum, and a couple of monthly calls - all for the low, low price of $8000.

If you ask me, that's a pretty good chunk of change. But, that's fine. If the program is worth it and will give you the result you want, then okay. What I really object to are some of the high pressure sales techniques he used. For instance, you have to "apply" for the program by midnight next Tuesday I believe. When I heard that, I'm like "are you kidding me?" You're really putting a product out there, pricing it at $8K, and you expect people to make snap decisions about it? Who has that kind of money to just spend at the drop of a hat? If I was making $120K each year, then maybe, but I'm not and neither are most guys that were listening to that call. Also, he emphasized over and over again that he's only "accepting" six guys into the program. Oh yeah? You're telling me that if I fill out a form that says I'll give you $8,000, that you'll find a way to turn that down?

I'm actually fine with companies putting a premium price on some of their offerings. But, when you throw something out there out of the blue, with that kind of price tag, how does that make sense exactly? Also, who treats their potential customers like that?

Another thing, there doesn't seem to be any way to contact Sinn or anyone from his company directly to ask questions. Again, how does this make sense? Who spends $8K without at least asking a few questions first?

I will say this: based on my gut instinct and from what I've heard other people say about him, I am fully willing to believe that Sinn is one of the best teachers/coaches in the game. But, this is a shitty, shitty way to run a business. It just is.


Default User said...

At $8,000 I suspect that high-pressure is the only tactic that would work.

If the tele-seminar was free then I imagine it really was a way to get you to hear the Platinum Mastermind Group" pitch.

Most of the pitch sounded like the traditional appeals to fear and against the target's insecurity (if you don't have this you will be lost, if you don't move now you will miss your chance). In essence, he ran a form of game (that is what sales is) on his audience.

I dislike such "high pressure" sales tactics, but a thousand time-share operators disagree.

Rake said...

Thanks for your comment. I'm really hoping to shine a spotlight on this.

One reason I'm frustrated here is because I actually agree with his philosophy that a long term, continuous coaching program is the way to go. It just makes sense to me. I also know enough about the community now to know that this guy is actually a really good instructor. He's definitely legit.

So why the high pressure tactics? Why not announce the program 3 months ago and give guys a chance to plan for it in their budgets? Why not set up an email address where guys can ask questions? Why not announce it on his own forum for God's sake?

And where are all the reviews of his programs? I've been digging through several national forums and there isn't anything. If he really is getting great results, even with the high price tag, why not have your students post reviews and get the word out? It doesn't make sense.

Again, thanks for the comment.

M with the dot said...

If I was making $120K each year, then maybe, but I'm not and neither are most guys that were listening to that call.

When you're pricing your program at $8k that's a clear sign that you don't want "most guys" as your customers. He doesn't want guys who need three months to "plan" for an expense of $8000. That amount of money is pocket change for certain people and that's the kind of people he wants to coach. If there's even a couple of guys willing to pay him $8k for what he's offering he would be stupid if he didn't charge that much.

Rake said...

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I don't see $8K as being completely out of line if his program works. It's expensive, but it's an affordable investment if you have an idea that it will actually work and get you the results you need.

green said...

I've been following Sinn for about 2 years, and this is nothing new. I want to know if this actually works for him... I mean it must, if he keeps doing it. He also laughably has YouTube videos where he says "My business manager is in the other room... he'll kill me when he finds out this deal I'm giving you." ... Laughable snake oil tactics. Wish he wouldn't use these, because like you say, he 's got very solid, usually free, information.

Rake said...

Yeah, his writing, podcasts, and other free info are usually extremely well-balanced. The guy clearly seems to know his shit.

But, tactics like these make me wonder what's going on. Maybe things really aren't going well and his students hate him.

He's been on his own now for at least 2 years and he's taken at least 2 groups through his 12 Months to Mastery Program. Where are the reviews? If the results are really as good as he claims, there ought to be reviews plastered all over the internet. At this point, he should be able to let the quality of the product speak for itself.

Default User said...

A more cynical look at the PUAsphere. The comic does not have many entries but they are not bad. The hate site, as the name would imply, is full of hate.

-Sandros- said...


Default User said...

You might like the latest PUA comic

Anonymous said...

I'm seriously considering taking a program like this with Sinn next year. I'm always keeping my eyes open for reviews but am never so lucky. I understand people and I know that most people wouldn't be able to finish a program that lasted months just because people don't stay committed and things in life come up. I wish I could see some good as well as bad reviews.

Rake said...


If I were you, I would think really hard before throwing down a big chunk of change on Sinn's program. Although I think his long-term coaching model is the best way to do it, the lack of reviews and his high pressure sales tactics make him extremely suspect.

For me, the pendulum is swinging back towards RSD, even though they don't do long-term coaching.